Canbilisim and Christainty
Ok someone wants to know why I think Christians are canbilsist. It is strange to me that they do not see themselves this way. They make all sort of excuses for their behavior but the truth is that most strains of Christianity have some sort of communion. Communion is the acting out of eating the flesh and blood of their "messiah". Now it is true that there is no actual blood or flesh it is usually some kind of bread/cracker and wine/grape juice that they are pretending is actual flesh and blood (some may take offense at the word pretending but I couldn't think of what else to call it). To me I donna care how you justify it, it is acting out the eating of an actual person, that is cannibalism. That's just plain gross and barbaric. As you aren't actually physically hurting anyone it is your right to be as gross as you want to be. But I find it odd that you stand on some moral high ground about how other people act when you still sit around acting out a set of circumstances where you all pretend to eat someone. People that want to control who does what should start by not pretending to eat people.... IMHO and teach their kids not to eat people. We wonder why our culture is so violent...... how could be less when we started with a religion that thought to take a revered person and eat him? That isn't even sanitary..... do you know if you actually ate humans how many disease you could get, how nasty sick you could be?
posted by achromic at 2:05 PM
19 Comments:
Interesting take on the Eucharist A. You are correct - we do eat and drink of Our Lord, Jesus Christ. I need to point out something though. Even though the communion wafer and the wine become, through transubstantiation, the Body, Blood, Soul and Divinity of Jesus, the species remains. That means that although I am eating Spiritual Food, the Eucharist, I am not actually eating flesh or drinking blood as the wafer and the wine do not change substance.
Why do I receive the Eucharist? Because Christ commands me to. As a Christian, I believe his words when he says that unless we eat of His Body and drink of His Blood, we will have no life within us.
I hope that you can understand this concept.
I do not see how the violence of this world is connected to your mistaken belief of cannibalism and Christianity. Christ also tells us to love one another as He has loved us - and that is a huge order. Bless you -
Lee anne are you tellin' me that if someone tells you that it is ok to eat them then you are ok with doing it? No I do not cannot accept any consept that includes grown up people deciding to pretend to eat someone else (transubtantiation my guess a word the Catholics made up to confuse the lower class and have them believe they were doing something "magical" to wine and crackers).
How do I see volience of this world connecting to the christian belief of eating their savior? Well it may not have started the volient trend but it sure ain't helpin' it out. Every year (some brands/demonations it is more often) you guys take your kids in and tell them to eat flesh and drink blood, if one of them says that it isn't blood or flesh you guys sit around and explain to them how it is thru ummm whatchamacallit "transubtantiation" and how it is a good thing.....Once you begin to believe that it is ok to take your most reverd figure and eat him you can justify just about anything.
Okay - I understand, A. You do not see the mystery of faith...that there are many things that just don't make sense, but that just are.
That anyone would tell me to eat their flesh? No - not anyone - God. That is my understanding of who Jesus is - the second person of the Triune God. If God tells me to do something, you bet I am going to do it! (grin)
The word transubstantiation is not a word that is made up for the lower classes. I am not of the lower class...so it would not work if that is what it was meant for.
The dictionary defines transubstantiation as the changing of one substance into another. The species remains - like I wrote before - but the faithful recognize it as being the Body and Blood of Jesus.
I can't explain why Jesus told us to do this - I can't explain how it is done, I just know it is.
I have never told my sons to eat someone's flesh. I have told them they are able to receive the Body of Christ. I can show them scripture passages that back up what I am teaching them.
If Jesus had not died for us, we would not have eternal life. Because He died for us, and rose from the dead, I believe that He is God and that what He says is what I must follow.
I still do not understand why doing something that God tells us to do begets violence. My sons are not violent - in fact, they are very gentle mannered people.
God also commanded us not to kill - I follow that, along with His other commandments - the thing about God is that you can't take some of what He tells us to do and ignore the other of what He tell us to do. That just ain't kosher!
Thanks for a really interesting post. Stimulating! I never looked at this subject quite this way before.
Wow, Naaman, that's a great explanation... Far better than any partially-fallen-away good ol' Catholic girl like me (who's spent too many yrs away from her religious education classes) could ever manage, that's fer sure! :-)
Val
Naaman while I believe that you believe what you are saying, it still is the practice of pretending to eat someone. Doesn't matter what nice words you use to talk about it the words during the communion have to do with blood and flesh (I was gonna actually look up the words but then I realized that you already know them far far better then I).
That you choose to believe that something that looks like bread/crackers and wine/grape juice is actually something different..... I just, I mean do you know how crazy that is? I mean if I come up to you in the street and say "hey man this donut isn't really a donut it's G*d and my coffee is G*d too" wouldn't you just start think "wow I got to get away from the crazy chick"? And if I told you that G*d told me, that I had read it in G*d's words that the donuts and the coffee were him would it make any difference?
While I tend to believe that G*d is in everything and therefore it is part of what we eat I just think that this communion thing that you guys do is a barbaric tradition that the catholic church started so they could help control the population, one by denying it to people that disagree with them therefore "outing" them in a very public way, two by help promote the mysticism/magic of their religion.
The question hasn't gone away Naaman because it isn't a question it is the truth. You and Lee ann pretend to eat someone. As long as your just pretending to do it tho' I will still like you guys just the same tho'. And so far, at least as far as I know, christians do not seem inclined to actually eat people at any greater rate then any other major religion and actually far less then some in history.
Lee ann, please, I like you an awful lot, but don't choose to believe in something without understanding it. One of the greatest things about any religion is it's vast history and the struggle to understand. I think it is the tendency in much of Christianity to "have faith" and "it is beyond our comprehension" but I do not think this is a good trend. Martian Lutheran, Christian Lewis, are both great men to read. If you don't understand why you are eating the flesh and drinking the blood then IMHO it is both of us that are missing out.
As to another point, Lee Ann, the christian G*d has never been about peace. Neither has the Jewish one or the Muslim one. There are place's in the bible that have peaceful idea's in them, but there is far far more about violence and death. If you cannot see how eating someone is subconscious ok for more bloodshed then you are choosing to be blind. Which is ok and totally your right.
A...thank you, I also like you!!
I do know why I partake of the Eucharist! I have studied the Christian religion as well as other religions and made a conscious decision to become Roman Catholic. There is such a thing called Faith - it is accepting what is mystery and living it out daily for the love of God.
I am not blind...I do not pretend to eat of Christ's body and drink of His blood. I actually receive the Body and Blood of Christ in Mass. God, through His Son, gave us a way to be in communion with Him through the Eucharist.
I have read C.S. Lewis (I think that is who you are referencing) and also Martin Luther. Martin Luther broke away from the Church because of issues -his issue was one of obedience. He founded a new religion based on the old - he was very familiar with the teachings of Christ - after all, he was a monk.
Jesus gave us the Church. He set up a way for us to continue to worship Him when He left us on an earthly level.
I am not faulting you for not understanding what the Eucharist is, A. I do know, though, that the old charge of cannibalism is a great way of staying away from what God wants us to do.
Blessings to you and yours this wonderful day!
Naaman wrote "As you may know, I disagree with the Catholic Church's position on denying the Eucharist to people. Scripture tells us that we should examine ourselves before we join in the Lord's Supper, not that the priest should examine us.
However, Communion is not an invention of the Roman Catholic Church. The Lord's Supper was given to us by the Lord Himself. (See, there's a hint right there in the name!) Although beliefs about Communion differ amongst the various Christian denominations, the fact is that Communion is part of the universal Christian Church."
Naaman - your treatise on the Eucharist is fascinating to follow I am enjoying reading it.
I need to disagree with you on this one point...which I pasted in above.
A priest does NOT examine me to see if I am worthy of receiving the Body of Christ. Nor would a priest examine anyone else.
However, I am not worthy of receiving the Eucharist if I have not 1) been baptized 2)gone to the sacrament of reconciliation.
Christ instituted both of those sacraments as well as (as you point out) the sacrament of Holy Communion. There are seven sacraments in all..seven "kisses" of God.
If I have mortal sin on my soul - and there are very straight guidelines for that - and I receive the Eucharist, I am in deep trouble. If I avail myself to the sacrament of reconcilation, then I am absolved of the mortal sin, and therefore able to partake of the Eucharist.
The Church does not want anyone to take Communion unworthily. To take Communion in the Roman Rite means that you are in 'communion'...agreement with all that it teaches.
Although some may see this as exclusive, or as you wrote, that a priest has to examine a parishioner, it is not truth. The truth is, the Church, in her wisdom, follows what Christ taught.
This made me chuckle. I have thought the selfsame thing. :D But I didn't link it to "teaching your children it is ok to eat people" I just thought it delightfully ironic that the people harking on about the evils of paganism (among other things) would be gathering together to eat the body of Christ and the blood of Christ etc. ... re Lee Anne's statement: "he says that unless we eat of His Body and drink of His Blood, we will have no life within us" is straight out of vampire book 101 as a philosophy. Very primitive and animistic. Transubstantiation must have made sense in ages where it was believed that lead could be turned into gold. If you ask me, it is actually symbolism. Like a band of gold on your finger symbolises the love and commitment to a spouse, it isn't exactly the love of the spouse. It is imbibed with meaning through a ceremony. And I think that sharing eating and drinking are part of the ceremonies of almost every religion. Taking into your body through ingesting, or inhaling (ie incense, or purifying with burning sweet grass) makes sense as a symbol of "I am taking my god's spirit inside of me, not just outside". But I still think it is quite funny that it is "this is my body, this is my blood" instead of "this is my love, this is my spirit"... it certainly would have saved them from the charges of miming cannibalism, and have the same religious symbolism if you ask me. But apparently Jesus who is God incarnate is wiser than I am.
Note, re your "is it ok to eat someone if they say it is ok" ... there was that case of reallife consensual cannibalism in Germany by Armin Miewes: http://www.50minutehour.net/archive/2003_07_01_index.htm#105943313784561125 and apparently assisted suicide is illegal in Germany but in fact cannibalism is not. :D An interesting ethical question.
As for the "we cannot pick and chose what to follow in the Bible"... it is done every day. In the New Testament it says women are never to be teachers to men. It says that a woman without her head covered in church is an abomination and is the same as a women with her head shaved. It says a woman is never to talk in church but to say what she has to say to her husband when she gets home. It says that you should respect and do as your owner says if you are a slave, even if he is a bad owner. You can look at http://thebricktestament.com to see some of what is in the Bible. I didn't quite believe it til I took out my own New Testament and looked for myself. Oops, I checked and it is down right now... should be back tomorrow it says. It really is great. The bible stories acted out with little lego people. OK, this is my first visit to your blog and I have written a missive! But it was a fun post.
Hehehehehe. Catholics (I was born and raised one) make me laugh laugh laugh laugh.
Cah-reee-peee. Creepy.
I've always loved the communion ceremony. I love the concept of having a miracle at every mass and consuming divinity, so that you have a little piece of God inside you.
I asked my mom a lot of unanswerable questions when she'd take me to Catholic mass every week. One was this:
"The wafer gets digested, but the part of God stays, right? How long does He stay? Do you have to eat Him every week? Is it like a bank for your soul? Does God leave when you sin? Does ALL of Him leave, or just one wafers' worth? Do you get the same bit of God every week, or new pieces? How much communion do you eat before you're full of God?" (that one made my mom laugh)
What I was trying to understand was the terms of divinity. (oooh. this s going to run long. continued in next comment)
...terms of divinity.
My mom taught me that God is in everything, because God *is* everything. Eating the Eucharist is like a booster shot. The transubstantiated wafer and wine remind us that we are divine creatures, capable of great things.
The church taught me that we take communion because Christ asked us to do so; and that by doing so, we make ourselves a holy vessel for Christ, and therefore -God.
My mom said it was ritualised cannibalism; only a little different from the cannibals we read about in National Geographic. They eat to gain the essence of another person. We eat to gain the essence of God.
My religion teacher had kittens over that one. He saw cannibalism as an insult, not a sacred rite. My mom, on the other hand, thought that words were merely words. If they're descriptive, use them. It's the intent and emotion behind words that gives them power.
So thank you, Achromic, for giving me the space to think aloud. Besides, I'm pagan... what do I know. ;)
One more thing, feel free to delete it. Naaman said:
"Muslims do not worship the same God as we do. They make that claim, but then they also claim a lot of things about God that are untrue. Therefore, they worship another god altogether."
According to the Old Testament, Abraham(?) had children with both his wife and her servant. One child's His wife's child began the lineage of God's chosen people. The servant and her child were cast out into the desert to die. God provided for them because this child was also the son of Abraham and therefore part of God's chosen people. That line eventually created the Islamic people. They both worshipped God.
Perhaps they worship Him imperfectly, and perhaps they misunderstand His Divine Will... many people do. But, they're roots lead to God.
All the denying in the world that the Eucharist is spiritual food for Christians to partake in in order to be in eternity with God is just that - denial.
For those of you who are writing that used to be Catholic - God has given you, through your baptism, the graces to seek Him. I challenge everyone who has written to get a copy of the Catechism of the Catholic Church (on line if you wish) and read.
I am not writing that you need to come to a place of faith - however after reading your posts, I realize that you are all good thinking people and have laid down arguments against what you think the Church teaches. I will not rebuff them, for I cannot argue with ignorance on a matter. Once you are familiar with what the Church teaches, then we will have a common ground of discussion.
I could not, would not argue wiccan if I was not familiar with it. Nor secularism...
Blessings -
Hello, Achro! I'm a Catholic "cannibal" myself. It is mysterious, but when you consider that we believe Christ is God, then it's not such a stretch to imagine God feeding us with Himself - He creates and nurtures. Just my thinks.
Anyway, I really wanted to wish you health and success with your upcoming surgery, and with battling your on-going and disabling pain.
Luke 22 (New International Version)
13)They left and found things just as Jesus had told them. So they prepared the Passover.
14)When the hour came, Jesus and his apostles reclined at the table. 15)And he said to them, "I have eagerly desired to eat this Passover with you before I suffer. 16)For I tell you, I will not eat it again until it finds fulfillment in the kingdom of God."
17)After taking the cup, he gave thanks and said, "Take this and divide it among you. 18)For I tell you I will not drink again of the fruit of the vine until the kingdom of God comes."
19)And he took bread, gave thanks and broke it, and gave it to them, saying, "This is my body given for you; do this in remembrance of me."
20)In the same way, after the supper he took the cup, saying, "This cup is the new covenant in my blood, which is poured out for you.
Prior to Christ dying on the cross, passover was symbolized by the sacrifice of animals. This was done in atonement for their sins.
Jesus became the ultimate sacrifice, human sacrifice. He gave his life for our sins to be forgiven. By his blood our sins are washed away. By the strips on his body (from being beaten) we are healed. He took the ultimate brutality to his body by carrying all of our sins. His blood flowed an then all of our sins were washed away. That is why the Bible teaches that no one cometh unto the father except thru the blood of Christ.
The bread does not symbolize the actual body of Christ, it symbolizes the sacrifice of his body. Just as the wine does not symbolize the actual blood of Christ, but that of his blood washing away our sins.
Holy communion is taken to reaffirm our recognizant of Christ dying for our sins, and our acceptance of same.
There is no cannibalism in communion.
1 Corinthians 10 (New International Version)
New International Version (NIV)
Copyright © 1973, 1978, 1984 by International Bible Society
1 Corinthians 10
Warnings From Israel's History
1For I do not want you to be ignorant of the fact, brothers, that our forefathers were all under the cloud and that they all passed through the sea. 2They were all baptized into Moses in the cloud and in the sea. 3They all ate the same spiritual food 4and drank the same spiritual drink; for they drank from the spiritual rock that accompanied them, and that rock was Christ. 5Nevertheless, God was not pleased with most of them; their bodies were scattered over the desert.
6Now these things occurred as examples[a] to keep us from setting our hearts on evil things as they did. 7Do not be idolaters, as some of them were; as it is written: "The people sat down to eat and drink and got up to indulge in pagan revelry."[b] 8We should not commit sexual immorality, as some of them did—and in one day twenty-three thousand of them died. 9We should not test the Lord, as some of them did—and were killed by snakes. 10And do not grumble, as some of them did—and were killed by the destroying angel.
11These things happened to them as examples and were written down as warnings for us, on whom the fulfillment of the ages has come. 12So, if you think you are standing firm, be careful that you don't fall! 13No temptation has seized you except what is common to man. And God is faithful; he will not let you be tempted beyond what you can bear. But when you are tempted, he will also provide a way out so that you can stand up under it.
Idol Feasts and the Lord's Supper
14Therefore, my dear friends, flee from idolatry. 15I speak to sensible people; judge for yourselves what I say. 16Is not the cup of thanksgiving for which we give thanks a participation in the blood of Christ? And is not the bread that we break a participation in the body of Christ? 17Because there is one loaf, we, who are many, are one body, for we all partake of the one loaf.
18Consider the people of Israel: Do not those who eat the sacrifices participate in the altar? 19Do I mean then that a sacrifice offered to an idol is anything, or that an idol is anything? 20No, but the sacrifices of pagans are offered to demons, not to God, and I do not want you to be participants with demons. 21You cannot drink the cup of the Lord and the cup of demons too; you cannot have a part in both the Lord's table and the table of demons. 22Are we trying to arouse the Lord's jealousy? Are we stronger than he?
The Believer's Freedom
23"Everything is permissible"—but not everything is beneficial. "Everything is permissible"—but not everything is constructive. 24Nobody should seek his own good, but the good of others.
25Eat anything sold in the meat market without raising questions of conscience, 26for, "The earth is the Lord's, and everything in it."[c]
27If some unbeliever invites you to a meal and you want to go, eat whatever is put before you without raising questions of conscience. 28But if anyone says to you, "This has been offered in sacrifice," then do not eat it, both for the sake of the man who told you and for conscience' sake[d]— 29the other man's conscience, I mean, not yours. For why should my freedom be judged by another's conscience? 30If I take part in the meal with thankfulness, why am I denounced because of something I thank God for?
31So whether you eat or drink or whatever you do, do it all for the glory of God. 32Do not cause anyone to stumble, whether Jews, Greeks or the church of God— 33even as I try to please everybody in every way. For I am not seeking my own good but the good of many, so that they may be saved.
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