Saturday, June 25, 2005

Just because it's in a book doesn't make it true

I get continually frustrated by people who believe that just because they found a book that says something about G*d that it must be true. Their book usually has some miracle that "proves" its validity. It isn't just the Xtains.... oh no not even close..... it is all of them, some of my good wiccian/pagan friends, jews, muslims, and xtians all seem to just get fanatical about some "book" weather they call it the bible, koran, or some weird teaching of some guy I never heard of. What is wrong with you all? If in science we trusted what one guy wrote about his findings to make medicine for you... we would be killing you by the droves! I love it when someone tells me they have done "research" and I ask them because I really do want to learn new things and I love history and I do want to know more about G*d... but when their "research" is reading what the PTB have given them or worse yet a search engine on a site that is for their denomination it takes every single bit of patience I have to not want to pull my hair out. Reading what someone else thought about what someone else thought that might be part of what someone else wrote about. This is a magic show not a spiritual endeavor to find G*d.

There are a few out there that do real good stuff. They really believe and they have real reasons (real as in they have thought it out and not been handed it to them by someone else) for believing how they do. Therefore they understand the laws of their belief and how to apply it in their life. And I usually know these people because they do enjoy talking about what they believe and when I ask them something that they don't know they just say "I don't know but maybe we can find out. "

Although this is an old complaint of mine (donna want some of my friends to think it is a new rant) I guess I'm mostly frustrated right now because I was asking some of my Xtain friends if the bible didn't say that abortion was wrong would they still believe it was wrong? That led for some into the question about what is human and what is not which of course leads right back to the bible... For others it they decided that if a child would say it was wrong then of course it was....... because a child was innocent and therefore wouldn't have a cloudy look on the problem...... ok umm still thinking that's out there but at least it was a good attempt to try and answer the question (more just didn't even try). Still more said there were great secular arguments but never said what they were...... BUT the worst came today when it was insisted that there was only one bible.... I just wanted to cry in frustration. First off it was a great way to get off topic because of course I couldn't let that fly bad enough that you think that a bible makes it right even worse when you don't understand that there are several different sects within your own belief system that all think they have the one and only BOOK OF G*D. If I could only drag that person to every other religious fanatic's (not only within their own system but in every single type of religious sect of all the different religions out there) to hear those exact words....... of how they have the one and only bible. It is like talking to someone that doesn't understand the difference between what is in the constitution and what was said in the Declaration of independence and how this isn't a democracy that we live in it never was. I just donno. These are smart people, really smart people who want to do good things...... how can we be so far apart?

This doesn't mean that I need a scientific backing for everything. I mean tell me that you believe in your bible because it feels right to you or because you feel that G*d led you in that direction fine by me. BUT don't tell me that we should bias medical findings, laws, or anything else that will effect people outside of your particular belief system based on the writing of your belief system. If you believe that abortion and embryonic stem cell research is wrong because it is murdering a human life and you want to make a LAW against it then I want to hear a secular reasoned approach to why. I will even give you that the embryo is a life, but then so is grass. Come and get me.


Blogger ashli said...

most people can understand the difference between a blade of grass and a growing human child.

yours is perhaps the weakest of all abortion supporting arguments.

and if i recall, in all due respect, you did not abort two embryos. in fact... one of your precious little ones was kicking you with his/her little feet even as you aborted him/her. the second or even possibly third trimester... and you, to this day, claim that killing him/her was the right thing to do.

so for you and i and our late term aborted human children... let's not mince words or concepts. no one needed a microscope to see the children we killed in the name of "choice"... something that takes an extraordinary amount of faith to support.

and for someone who claims they lack faith... you seem to lack no amount of it in supporting abortion... why is that do you think?

7:06 AM  
Blogger achromic said...

Yes there is a diffrence between a blade of grass and a human being. For me the diffrence comes in the ablity to think and reason. Which is why I'm against treating any creature that can think at a certian level of intellgince as "animals" and treating their homes as "resorces" but that doesn't apply seem to apply to your side as only "human" life is sacred which cause me to wonder about what your standerd for life is or human. It seems to a biblic one in which case this is a religious arguement. And while I don't have a problem with having religious debate I do not think that Law should be baised on what one religion or another has to say.

If I had apsolute faith in abortion I wouldn't be asking questions. I would "know" that I was right. BUT you guys have effected me and I am questioning a lot of diffrent things. But what I won't do is accept something on someone else "blind" faith.

For instance you guys have apsolutely convinced me that cleaner better abortion clinc's are needed. And that we need to moniter the care that is being given. That includes training and a plan for those women who are being abused and pressured into an abortion. I would have never ever been for any of that before.

8:54 AM  
Blogger Naaman said...

Achromic, as I said on my blog comments, I think that the secular arguments against abortion are actually much stronger than the Biblical arguments. Let's face it; the Bible never actually says that abortion is wrong in any direct, black-and-white language. A thorough reading of the Bible should lead one to that conclusion, but the Good Book doesn't actually "spell it out" for us.

Meanwhile, science continues to march forward. We know more and more about the humanity of the unborn child. We also know more and more about the harmful long-term effects of abortion, both on the women who abort and on society as a whole. We've traded the lives of our children for this: wounded souls and a culture that can't see the value of human life.

Human life is intrinsically valuable. It's not valuable because of a certain quality or a function that can be fulfilled. Utilitarian views on the value of human life have led directly to some of the most horrific acts in our history: slavery, the various massacres of native peoples by "advanced" Westerners, and genocide. Human beings are valuable because they are human beings, period.

Pro-choicers tend to want us (pro-lifers) to prove when "personhood" begins as an argument against abortion. To me, this is crazy talk. Before you kill someone, you should accept the burden of proof that the killing is okay. So, I turn the question to you: Can you prove that the unborn child does not deserve the rights and protections that we would normally give all people? If you can't prove it, then we should err on the side of life.

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